that's governing from fear. as opposed to governing from leadership. and somebody else on a show one day said a lot of these republicans really believe, this is what they really, really believe in. that's great. but at some point one side or the other, and in fact both, are going to have to give a little. >> kiki, i would be -- i would think you would be sensitive to talking about leadership. i mean, when you say that, you don't hear irony? that's the -- maybe it's just the other side, the republicans talking about president obama, but, you in the last six, the last five years, have you seen a president that comes together and leads both? >> yeah. >> you have? >> have you, tony? >> i've seen a president who went out and campaigned on a certain series of things that he believed were important for the country and that he wanted to do, and he went and he pursued them. and that's leadership. >> he's pursuing them. but i think everybody's pursuing what they have to pursue. you've been listening to us for the last few months. i think we've been saying that t